Tesla-Batteries-how-are-they-holding-up.txt THIS IS: http://www.woodsmall.com/Tesla-Batteries-how-are-they-holding-up.txt Peter Lucas: Tesla Model S owner since 20168mo How are the first Tesla car batteries functioning now that it has been 7-10 years since the first release? Do they need to be fixed/replaced and how much has the costs been to maintain a Tesla for this duration? I have a 2016 Model S 90D. The "90" kwh battery holds about 68–70 kwh of energy. My full charge range is about 190 miles (not 285 as advertised). Most of that battery degradation occurred in the first few thousand miles of ownership. While that loss of energy capacity and range is annoying enough, I am more annoyed by: Tesla Service says that my battery is fine. The cars energy meter still shows full charge range near 280 miles. Tesla Service manager told me: "We do not replace batteries for any amount of degradation. Only if the battery shows a fault." Aside from the battery deterioration, the car has been very reliable. https://www.quora.com/How-are-the-first-Tesla-car-batteries-functioning-now-that-it-has-been-7-10-years-since-the-first-release-Do-they-need-to-be-fixed-replaced-and-how-much-has-the-costs-been-to-maintain-a-Tesla-for-this-duration ---- Michael Nickerson - 2014 Tesla Model S P85 owner (non Autopilot)Updated 8mo I drive a 2014 Tesla Model S that has 112,000 miles. I haven't charged it up all the way for at least 2 years, so I'm not sure of its current maximum range. I charge it to 185 miles each morning, knowing that's about 3X as far as I expect to drive. The main battery has not been fixed or replaced. It's still driving like the day I bought it. Maintenance and repairs since the warranty expired have been: Small coolant leak in the battery coolant system. That was around $300 parts and labor. The 12V battery has been replaced twice. Those were about $150 each. A wiring harness in the driver's door started to fail. That was about $200. The cabin filter, windshield wipers, and key fob batteries were replaced a few years ago. No brake work has been done. No alignments or suspension work have been needed. No oil changes, fluid flushes, or timing belts. --- Steve Baker Senior Software Engineer (2013–present)Upvoted by Christopher John Anderson , former Quality Technician at Tesla (2018-2021)1y How long will the battery pack in a new Tesla last? What is the projected replacement cost? The battery packs on Teslas that have been driven as Taxi’s and rental cars seem to be holding up to 500,000 miles…and by that time, other things are starting to fail and maybe the car is approaching the end of it’s life. But Tesla’s haven’t been around for long enough to have many that are this old. But an IMPORTANT fact is that battery packs on electric cars rarely just *FAIL*. What happens is that the amount of energy they can store gradually declines…which gradually reduces the amount of range you have on a single charge. That’s because the car doesn’t have ONE gigantic battery - it has about 4,000 individual batteries. They don’t all just fail at once - what happens is that individual batteries fail (and it’s not worth replacing them). The cost to replace the entire battery pack is HUGE, $10,000 or so…but this just doesn’t happen in practice. What I’d expect would happen is that as the range on an EV starts to get unacceptably short (for it’s original owner) - they’ll sell it to someone who wants the reliability of an electric car and the low cost of running it - but who doesn’t need to drive 250 miles in a day. If you want a used car - then you want one that’s going to be RELIABLE…one that will start 100% every single time…and not leaving you stuck someplace or unable to get to work. So a reduced-range Tesla is going to be an excellent used car…even out to 500,000 miles. This graph was made by one of the Tesla owner’s clubs. They asked every member to tell them the miles on the odometer and the miles available at 100% charge. This is what they got: GO TO THE URL TO SEE THE CHART The red line is the “best fit” curve to the individual blue dots. What you can CLEARLY see is that when the car is new - under 50,000 kilometers driven - there is a 5% drop-off in range. Evidently 5% of those individual batteries suffer "infant mortality" (an actual term in the reliability business)…but once the weaker batteries have all died - the rate of battery decline is pretty much a dead straight line. And if you look at how fast that line falls - it’s about 2% of the battery for every 100,000 kilometers. 530,000 miles is 850,000 km - so after half a million miles of driving, we’d expect to have that initial 5% drop in the first 50,000km and then eight 2% drops - for a total of about 20% loss of range. So my Tesla Model 3 came with 240 miles of range - and that’ll decline to 190 miles by the time it’s been driven half a million miles. Honestly - I don’t give a damn. On daily driving, I almost never drive more then 100 miles - and then the car gets recharged at home overnight. On road trips, there are Tesla SuperChargers about every 150 to 180 miles - so even a 190 mile range is just enough to get from one supercharger to the next. That is "enough" range. So there is no reason for me to even consider replacing the battery before half a million miles…and bear in mind that an average gasoline car is on the scrapheap after 150,000 to 200,000 miles. So at half a million miles - your Tesla’s already driven three times further than a typical gas car…this is AMAZING. And the car’s not dead yet. Maybe I give it to a teenager or use it as my second-car - buying a new car for road trips? Even if the range degraded to only 100 miles after a million miles on the road (more than an average person drives in a lifetime!) - that still PLENTY for a lot of people - and the car will still do 0–60 in 5 seconds and hit 140mph. Gas cars that are at the ends of their lives have VERY degraded power…dodgy transmissions… difficulty starting in the cold and/or wet. Everything I *HATE* about old cars. So - don’t worry about battery replacement - it’s not going to happen. SAYS Steve Baker === Robert Newall - Former Retired Electrical Engineer8mo The best estimates for the life of Li-Ion car batteries is 23 years, so they will all keep on working fine for quite some time yet. Even then the capacity will still be over 80%, so they will be re-purposed for other uses. === Ricky C: Is it true that Tesla electric cars are really unusable in cold weather? I have a model x in Alberta, Canada. It definitely gets cold here (-25 to -30 C for stretches in Edmonton, Alberta). I enjoy snowboarding and will stay in Canmore (Canadian city). The drive is 4 hours by a gas car. With the model x, it takes an additional hour. the reduction in range is well reported and well documented. In Canadian winters, it's definitely 50–60 percent reduction. the real problem, however, is if you have to charge your car after it’s stayed out in the cold for a prolonged period of time. preconditioning doesn’t solve this problem. for example, after stopping in Canmore and leaving the car outside in -10 , it took 4 hours to charge to be able to do a round trip to Banff for boarding. my conclusion is EVs are okay for city driving in canadian winters, but you are going to be adding significant time and risk of using on highway. === K Vopalecky How long do batteries in Tesla cars last? How are they replaced when needed? Almost all of the first Model S Teslas that were sold in 2012 are still going strong on their original batteries. EVs can travel 500,000 to over a million miles on their original batteries. In fact there's little data on battery replacement because it's such a rare occurrence. On the other hand, how many miles can we drive a gasoline-powered vehicles before they begin to have serious issues? === Trausti Thor Johannsson - Car enthusiastic, fan of electric cars7mo 2015 Model S here, driven close to 220,000 km. Still original battery and motors, and still is above 90% of what it was when it was new. This is quite normal. Tesla did swap out batteries in the beginning but has not needed it basically. === Reo Maynard - Ph.D. candidate, Quantitative and Systems BiologyOct 14 I don’t have a Tesla.. I do own a 100% electric Chevy Bolt. It is now 5 years old, 97,000 miles ODO, and the battery still charges up to its max of 238 on an ideal day. So far, the dreaded degraded batteries hasn’t hit me (although Bolts have had some charging and fire issues…but mine is fine ;) Love not having pumped gas in 5 years here in Calif.. Gas is $$$ == Todd R. Lockwood - Tesla Community Organizer In Vermont How expensive is it to replace a Tesla's battery, in 2019? If you buy a new Tesla, it is highly unlikely that you will be replacing the battery while you own the vehicle. There are many Teslas on the road with 250,000 miles or more on the original battery. Furthermore, Tesla is expected to make an announcement this spring about a battery breakthrough that could result in a 1 million mile battery with a vast increase in range. The first hint of this new battery technology was evident when Tesla unveiled its upcoming Roadster two years ago. The Roadster has a claimed range of 620 miles. == Frank Zucco - Drives a Tesla Model 3 Long Range Dual MotorDec 26 Is there a Tesla Model 3 with 100,000 miles? Yes. Mine too—like Jim Murphy has already reported for his car. Mine has 107,629 miles. 2018 Model 3 Long Range based in Castle Rock, Colorado, south of Denver. The car looks new inside and out and drives like new. I have white seats and they still also look new if you don’t look too close at the driver’s seat—passengers note it. I still have 2 original summer tires—now with 79,000 miles on them. I do a lot of highway driving, so that may be the reason those lasted so long. I replaced a windshield that was hit by a rock for $850. I replaced a camera that was intermittent at 81,000 miles for $194. The range of the battery has declined by 10.9%—but note that I treat the car rough - 69% of my charging is supercharging on road trips in 38 US states. Lots of bad weather, mountains and some dirt roads. I drive in dirty and nail-infested construction sites for work. I get hit by tumbleweeds from time to time. == Stephen Grande - Own a 2015 Tesla Model S P85DL and 2016 Tesla Model X P90DL6mo What do I do if I have to charge my Tesla overnight at a supercharger? You don’t. On a road trip it will usually take 20 to 30 minutes to charge enough at a Supercharger to reach your next charging location with a good safety margin. If you want to charge to 100% even the largest Tesla battery, that would almost always take under an hour at a Supercharger. But you should not often charge to 100% as it shortens the life of the battery and the last few miles of charging to top off the battery take the longest time. When I purched my current Tesla vehicles in 2015 and 2016 there were very few Tesla vehicles across the nation except in California. When I did 3000 mile cross country round trips I’d often stay at hotels with Superchargers in their parking lot and leave my Tesla plugged in all night. At that time there was zero chance that I blocked any other Tesla from charging. I would not do that today as there are a lot more Tesla cars across the nation and many Tesla Superchargers have penalty charges if you leave your Tesla plugged in after finished charging. Instead I would just head out to my car when it notifies my mobile phone that it is almost done charging and would drive out of the Supercharging space. === Stephen Grande - Own a 2015 Tesla Model S P85DL and 2016 Tesla Model X P90DL8mo I have a 2015 Model S and 2016 Model X each with more than 79,000 miles and both still retain well over 200 miles range. I usually charge them to around 80% to 90% or to around 180 to 190 miles range. That is enough for each daily errand for me. Every time I plug in after returning from an errand I usually still have way over 100 miles of range left. The only time I need to charge at a Tesla Supercharger is when I make a round trip that is over 200 miles. I expect the battery to last the life of the car which should be until at least 300,000 miles which may be as much as 30 years. == Wayne Criger - Former FieldTech, Tech Support, Tech Trainer, Manager (1979–2000)7mo Batteries degrade from charge/discharge. Each charge takes a bit of time off the sucker I do know they are working on more betterly batteries that both hold more power and degrade slower. The guy said the goal was a 1,000,000 mile battery. If he mentioned range goal is is gone form my hair free noggin! I can tell ya for sure that what I dealt with on Grade A Bank systems the indoor batteries in the 80’s lasted longer than the outside bell battery…..heat being the problem. == Trausti Thor Johannsson - I own and operate a Tesla Model S3y Why is the cost of a Tesla battery replacement so high? The batteries, controls and the armour that covers it costs a lot of money, materials cost money But a battery at around $10 thousand and expected to drop by close to half withing 4–5 years is not that much actually. First and foremost you don't need to buy batteries, you just don't. Nissan which has had full electric cars on the streets for the longest time have only done 2 promille of battery replacements and that is frankly just a handful of batteries and almost all were covered under warranty, so no money needed. You don't have to buy a new battery after 8 years or even 30 years by the looks of things and insane amount of driving by some Tesla owners. Then there is always the possibility that your old battery be refurbished, so it does not have zero value either. But you are actually in luck. You will be able to buy new batteries for many decades in your electric car, can you say the same thing for engines and transmissions in a normal car? How much does that cost? NOT SURE I COMPLETLEY AGREE - WILL THE AVAILABLE BATTERIES FIT YOUR CAR? == David Jones - Roadster since 2011 and Model 3 since 2018. Former Model SJan 30 My Tesla Roadster still had about 85% of its original capacity when a single cell on 1 of the eleven sheets failed at about 8.5 years old. That was pretty good from an aging standpoint. Rather than sent the car to Gruber, who would have jumpered around the bad cell and done a PEM refurb, I exercised a contract to replace my battery since it had to be used by the 10 year mark (I had pre-bought my first replacement battery at a large discount when I purchased the car). It took a while for that battery to get built, but Tesla replaced the battery (which originally had a 245 mile range) with a new version that has nearly a 300 mile range. Had I not had that contract and been forced to use it by that 10 year mark, I would have simply shipped it to Gruber. While that car was my daily driver through the Vermont winter snows for its first battery, as the road salt has cause some corrosion, I am only taking it out now on dry winter days and in the summer, letting my Model 3 do the winter driving. == Trausti Thor Johannsson - I own and operate a Tesla Model SUpdated 6mo Tesla owners, what has been the cost to replace your electric motor or battery? If you haven’t needed to that is fine. I’m curious as to when this happens what the cost is and how long after purchase/use did this occur. Thanks. EV car owners are not replacing their batteries. As good as none of them. In the start, from 2013–2016 or so so, if there was some failure or unexpected drop in range, they simply replaced the battery in warranty, for $0. Instead of spending enormous time fixing your battery, you got a replacement, quick and fast. This is why many early Tesla Model S have had battery replacements. After 2015 or so, they had gotten enough data to find out why there was irregularites and fixed them. After that most cars never need replacements. Really. Nissan expected to change over 20% batteries under warranty. It ended up being 0.001% in warranty, give or take. A few Tesla cars have reached 500,000 miles, have had battery replacements, mostly though in the early days and they are Taxis who ONLY supercharge The price varies from $10,000 or so. A few Teslas are also at million miles, still in use and do have had battery replacements, 1–2 times. These things last. The cars last. Best part is, when you get a new battery, you will charge faster, drive further than before and even get a larger battery. Now that seems like a great deal. == JC DuBois - I own a 2017 Tesla Model S & my wife a 2017 Model X 100P2y Are Teslas expensive to maintain? How much does it cost to replace a Tesla battery? Originally Answered: Are Tesla's expensive to maintain? How much does it cost to replace a Tesla battery? If you take care of it, a battery can last as long as a gasoline engine does, and costs about the same to replace. People make this paranoia argument about the cost of an EV’s battery. They forget that having a dealer replace the engine in their car often costs $6000, and can cost $10,000 or even more. Battery and battery technology is improving at a rapid rate. It is very possible by the time your battery needs to be replaced, it will actually cost LESS then it does today because of technology improvements. Otherwise, a Tesla is actually very low cost to maintain. I have no oil changes, no timing belts, and so on. Sure, someday I may have to replace the battery, but I suspect I will want to replace the car like I have others I have owned simply because it has gotten old (seats still wear out, electronics become dated, paint fades, etc). == Jeff Solie - Vocal and involved advocate for electrifying personal transportation asap! , former Quality Technician at Tesla (2018-2021)Updated 5y Do Tesla cars need maintenance like regular gas cars? Originally Answered: Do Tesla cars need maintenance like regular gas? Oh my…no. There are dozens of things a Tesla does not need, that a 20th century gas car does. Please wonder a lot about any answer that says "yes" to the question "do Tesla cars need maintenance like regular gas cars" There are suspension components to maintain, yes. But that is with all cars that have a suspension. Which is all cars. Other than that, you have windshield washer fluid. Brake fluid. And a super infrequent battery cooling system flush. Tesla does recommend that owners bring their cars in every year to get a once-over by their techs. That's the recommended service interval. It’s not required to maintain the warranty. So, from someone with a Model S, here is the absolute answer. We do not have to do the following top 20 maintenance and wear-item maintenance. You can do whatever math you’d like to determine how much this saves. Oil changes. Transmission fluid changes. Brakes (EVs do the majority of their braking magnetically using the electric motor as a drag generator turning momentum back in to electricity and putting it back in the battery. It would be like having a little gasoline refinery on the brakes of a 20th century car, that dribbles gas back into the tank as you brake). Timing belts Serpentine belts Power steering pump O2 Sensor Mass Air Flow sensor Spark plugs. Coil packs Plug wires. Muffler. Catalytic Converter. Exhaust resonator. Exhaust pipes. Rear Diff fluid change. Water pump. Head gasket. Charcoal canister. Emission tests. In addition, we have no real fear of needing major engine or transmission work. We don’t have a transmission as such. And the simplicity of an electric motor is stunning compared to the thousands of moving parts that are needed to get power from an explosion at the front of the car, to a spinny force at the drive wheels. It’s truly amazing. In a Tesla, we do have to concern ourselves with battery degradation. It is estimated that a Tesla battery will have only 80% of its battery capacity when the car has 300,000 miles. But do that math before you cringe. My car brand new had a range of 265 miles. At 80%, my car will still have a range of 212 miles. Seems pretty workable to me. Especially after 300,000 miles. And the motors are rated for a million miles. Yes, suspension parts. And tires. But that’s all cars. Other than that…it's really a game changer how little service these cars require. === Björn Blomberg What is life expectancy of Tesla car motor? About a months ago did Tesla proudly inform the media that the complete drivetrain (motor and gears) just was tested to last over ONE MILLION miles (or over 1.610.000 km) and they did also show photos of the gears, with no visual wear... So the other answer is completely wrong... The most amazing fact, is that every Tesla is actually carefully constructed to last a lifetime or 100 years (!) except the tires and some extra long life consumables, as the battery pack... Yes, Musk said both a lifetime and 100 years at different times... And it's only Tesla who have this very special ambition, to both save the natural resources and be as friendly to the environment as possible... This unique concept is also one of the main reasons why Tesla build cars and so natural for everyone who work at Tesla, that I guess they simply got "home blind" and forget to inform people about this extremely valuable fact, even if most sellers (including most sellers of other cars) know about this construction concept... And the most strange result, is that most Tesla owners don't know this... But Elon Musk use to say something about this unique great green principle, every time he presents a new model... And this concept is also the reason why the very elegant design, actually are very discreet (without the ordinary trendy decoration details) so the car will be max "timeless" and why the exceptional safe body of Model S and X are made of aluminium... And why model 3 mainly is made of extra protected steel, plus a lot of aluminium... And why the drivetrain (which naturally take the most intense abuse) really are built and tested to last over one MILLION miles, to make it last as long as the main car... Yes, one private Tesla has already been driven over 486.000 miles and several taxi Tesla's has been driven over 300.000 miles on the original battery... You can compare that with a BMW M5 engine, which cost more and use to die at 200-300k miles... And every car maker have normally some temporary construction problems, with new models and they make often a few mistakes, when they build cars - but those annoying details, which Tesla fix fast, say naturally nothing about a cars total lifespan. Tesla did also offer some customers to buy a lifetime insurance and maintenance package, at the time of purchase... Like a one time investment... And that would absolutely NOT be possible, without the unique 100 years construction concept... "We've been doing it quietly" was Tesla President of Global Sales and Service Jonathan McNeill explaining in an earning call 2017 and in Asia was a majority of Tesla cars sold with this package... And they did plan to offer this to every customer, sometime in the future. But the worst effect of Tesla's "home blind" silence, is that many will buy nice looking electric cars from other companies, that really seem to be good alternatives - but they are only built to last about 20 years (with very careful and expensive maintenance) just as today's cars, according to honest tech people I personally talked with at VW, Audi, Volvo, BMW and Mercedes... And Jaguar don't mention anything else, so I guess they simply do the same, just as all the Asian car makers... That construction principle has even a business name - planned obsolescence - and is the only reason you always have to change light bulbs... They simply want you to buy a new car, as soon as possible and when all other car makers (except Tesla) make cars that normally last 15 to 25 years, why not do the same and possible sell more cars? So they absolutely don't want to compete with Tesla, in that vital way and hope they can continue to sell cars, that die extra fast... But that is naturally a false logic, because Tesla can simply sell a lot more "lifetime cars" to different people and make a lot more money that way... And at the same time, make many more go electric... And after 80 to 100 years, can they also begin to sell new cars to many millions of extremely satisfied customers. Another BIG problem with this, is that many owners think that a Tesla has a rather normal lifespan and believe that the car will begin to break down, like other cars, after about 200.000 miles or 20 years and because of that major misunderstanding, sell their Tesla too cheap! But you know this now, more and more people will discover this, especially when they see how fresh "incredible old" Tesla cars are and Tesla's super long lifespan is ONLY GOOD for you... The main benefit is that the first 20 years or 200.000 miles (a normal cars life) will only cost you about 40% of the initial investment and the next 20 years, cost you about 15% and then will it continue like that... You can also sell the amazingly fresh car, at an extra high price (compared to any other maker) after 10 or 30 or 60 years IF you really want another Tesla... Yes, Tesla and many other companies will naturally offer more and more delicious updates, for your car... So you can very easily keep your lovely Tesla ultra modern and super fresh, almost forever... And that may cost you from almost nothing to 22% if you for example want both a new computer system and new first class seats, compared with buying a completely new Tesla... Because you surely NOT want another brand, that dies just after 15 to 25 years! And I'm from Sweden, so I may write slightly strange... But I hope this will be a great help, anyhow! === Steve Baker - Senior Software Engineer (2013–present)1y Can I leave my Tesla plugged in for a week? Sure - you can leave it plugged in for years if you want to. The charging circuits know when the battery reaches whatever charge limit you set (probably 80% of full) - and it’ll shut off the charging when it reaches that level. If the battery gradually depletes over days to weeks, it’ll turn it back on again as needed. It will also use power to keep the battery safely between it’s storage limits - warming it if it gets too cold, cooling it if it gets too hot. Basically - just leave the car plugged in - and it’ll keep itself happy for as long as you need. == Scott McElhiney - Former Automotive Technology Program Tech/Instructor at Bates Technical College Related Can you use regular batteries in a Tesla car instead of their own expensive ones? Sure, you can use whatever batteries you want wherever you want… not just in or out of a Tesla === Peter Drummond How much does it cost to charge the batteries in Tesla cars? Is that part of the purchase price, or do owners pay for charging afterwards? I charge mine at home usually. It costs about $25 Australian, or $18 US to charge it fully from empty. This depends on what the local electricity company charges per kWH. The Tesla I have takes about 80kWH, although I usually recharge it more often than it really needs, as it just takes a minute to plug it in and keep it topped up to about 80–90% full. I don’t charge it completely unless I am going on a long trip, as my model 3 has a battery that lasts a bit longer if not fully charged to the limit. Tesla charged it for me once before I bought it. There were good deals in the past, but I pay to use a public charger like a Tesla supercharger, which is more expensive than charging at home. == Tim Kulogo - Own a Model S P85+ and a Leaf8mo My car is 9 years old, have 172,000 miles, and the original battery have about 91% of its original range. About 2 years ago, when I had 113,000 miles on it, it had about 92% of its original range. At this point, I’m pretty sure that if I have to replace the battery, it'll be due to some damage of some type, like corrosion getting in or damage from one of the accidents. === Christian Bull - I own two fully electric cars. What do you do if your Tesla runs out of battery in a city with no chargers? Has this ever happened to anyone? A city with no electric outlets? Does that even exist? An electric car can charge anywhere there is electric power. Any standard wall outlet is fine. The charger is built into the car. It’s also really, really easy to plan your route so that you don’t run out of power. It’s possible to screw up and forget the connector cable of course. This happened to me once. My wife, who apparently leads a sheltered life, was going to pick me up at work for a trip to our cabin in the mountains. I had a Tesla Model S with the 60kWh battery at the time, and we would typically arrive with about 15% battery remaining. She didn’t realize she needed to bring the connector, and by the time I realized we’d left without it we were past the point of no return. I called my father, who went to my house, got the cable and put it on a bus that stops in the nearest village, 25 km from my cabin. Then I dropped off my wife and kids at our destination, unpacked the car and drove back to the village in time to meet up with the bus. Problem solved. (check out my home made “charging station” - it’s just a 35m extension cord connected to a regular wall outlet) What do you do if your petrol burning car runs out of petrol in a city with no petrol? In a couple of decades someone is going to have to figure that one out. == Tom Huggins · Its really a good idea to check out some youtube videos form reliable sources, to help discern an answer. you will get so many answers, from people with different perspective. This of Tesla range, as the MPG number on the window sticker of an ice car. Those numbers are derived form ideal circumstances. No one gets that number off the window sticker. Many people do not get the promised range from a Tesla. So many factors relate to range: -Driving habits -the geography of the region you drive in -Is it cold—-requires extra heat -are there many extreme elevation changes -is it hot——requires extra cooling -is it highway driving—-EVs do better in stop and go—-the opposite of ICE cars -is that highway a race track, with average speeds of 90—-EVs do better under 60 mph -driving technique, do you use one pedal driving, and regenerative braking Its fair to assume when buying an EV, that you will get about 60–70% of the advertised range. Unless you take routine long trips it really wont matter much to most people. Most people driver 30 to 45 miles per day, and have access to charge most every night. Our Tesla has 309 miles of range. We charge it at least two nights per week, and never come close to running out of charge. I never charge past 75% either, as this is much easier on the battery, and 230 miles of range is plenty for most of what we do. If we were going to take a trip to Disney, I might charge up to 95%, that is about 2 hours away, but it is also hot here, so we would use more cooling, and the car would use cooling while we were in the park. With superchargers virtually everywhere, there is minimal need to be concerned with range, as long as you are getting close to the ball park of 200 real, actual miles. Less than that might be annoying. === SEE ALSO: North-Ridge-Hybrids,-Electric-Vehicles-&-Battery-Technology Current News - updated daily - David Woodsmall MAIN WEB PAGE - David R Woodsmall MAIN Web Page - Complete, Huge Technical Information Site - David Woodsmall

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